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Sunday reading

I go to Bibliotecapleyades and click on UFO War Explodes Through Entire Pacific Ocean - Now A Coalition War.

It's interesting, so I go to John Kettler's website to read more.  Once at John's site, I find a link to: Getting a "Handl" on things? at the Cassiopaea Forum.

Reading that topic, I find the link to the Blue Hedron. Wow, that is some story!  [Internal Link]

For a more accurate understanding substitute for Blue Hedron — the Work/Matrix/Reciprocal Maintenance./"There is no true divinity except Man."

While I'm at , I check out the Work subcategory in their forum, and begin reading Gurdjieff: The Soul, The First Initiation and Christianity

In that topic, I follow the link to The Mevlevi Path Versus Gurdjieffism which has the following quote:

"There is no true divinity except Man." (LINK)

Gnosticism today

Excerpts from: The Mevlevi Path Versus Gurdjieffis

Gnosticism today is the continuation of an ancient "underground" movement that has usually taken the form of Dualism. Followers of Gnosticism who understand its teachings have typically viewed the Creator of the material universe with contempt.8   This contempt was expressed in the dualistic doctrines of Manicheism and "Christian Gnosticism" which taught that Spirit (Light) was opposed to Matter (Darkness), that the physical world and the body are evil, that the Creator of the material world was either an evil or inferior "moon-god" called the "Demiurge" [na`audhu bi-llâh--let us take refuge in Allah and seek His forgiveness for being so explicit about this], and that the true goal of the spiritual seeker is to find a way to escape the "prison of matter" and the "sub-lunar" world and reach salvation in the "Realm of Light" [the Pleroma]. Saviours were periodically sent down from the "Realm of Light" to offer the knowledge of salvation, or "gnosis," to seekers who had the potential to escape the material world. However, only a tiny minority called "pneumatics" had souls which could survive death and return to the Realm of Light. Some, called "psychics" had the potential to develop such a soul. The great majority of humanity were called "hylics," and had no hope of survival after death.  


Among the strange teachings of Gurdjieff is the assertion that human beings do not have souls, but have to receive knowledge and training by being part of an "esoteric school" in order to "grow a soul" (or "astral body") that can then survive death for a period of time:
 
"You know what the exression 'astral body' means. But the systems with which you are acquainted and which use this expression state that all men have an 'astral body'. this is quite wrong. What may be caled the 'astral body' is obtained by means of fusion, that is, by means of terribly hard inner work and struggle. Man is not born with it. And only very few men acquire an 'astral body'. If it is formed it may continue to live after the death of the physical body, and it may be brn again in another physical body... Fusion, inner unity, is obtained by means of 'friction', by the struggle between 'yes' and 'no' in man."11

Gurdjieff taught that most human beings are mere "slugs" with no souls and that following death their remaining psychic energy is "food for the Moon." This teaching can understood as a reference to the doctrine in Gnosticism that the material world keeps human beings (but not all, just the few who possess "sparks of light") trapped in bodies so as to prevent escape. The realm of Darkness is depicted as not wanting to let of its captured light to escape back to the realm of Light. Such a follower of Gnosticism seeks to develop an astral body that can escape the "power of the Moon" and become freed from the "sub-lunar" material world.12 This explains another very strange teaching of Gurdjieff: "The way of the development of hidden possibilities is a way against nature, against God."13 It means that the seeker following the way of Gnosticism must gain secret knowledge and methods in order to escape the control of the "Demiurge." What Gurdjieff called "the Work" is the goal of spiritual Alchemy, the "Great Work" (Magnum Opus): the separation of light from darkness--or in Manichean terms, the liberation of "sparks of light" from being trapped in the dense world of matter.

  • 11 quoted by Ouspensky, "In Search of the Miraculous," 1949, p. 31. This was restated by Kabir Helminski in "The Knowing Self," 1999, pp. 211-12: "The world is a place for fashioning the soul, in the sense that soul is not given to us automatically, despite our assumptions to the contrary. Our interiority, our presence, must be created from within the distractions and forgetfulness of everyday outer life, from within the constant clash of pleasure and pain, happiness and loss."
  • 12 Gurdjieff was also quoted by his student Ouspensky as saying (in "In Search of the Miraculous," 1949): "Man, like every other living being, cannot, in the ordinary conditions of life, tear himself free from the moon. All his movements and consequently all his actions are controlled by the moon. If he kills another man, the moon does it; if he sacrifices himself for others, the moon does that also. All evil deeds, all crimes, all self-sacrificing actions, all heroic exploits, as well as all the actions of ordinary everyday life, are controlled by the moon. The liberation which comes with the growth of mental powers and faculties is liberation from the moon. The mechanical part of our life depends upon the moon, is subject to the moon. If we develop in ourselves consciousness and will, and subject our mechanical life and all our mechanical manifestations to them, we shall escape from the power of the moon."
  • 13 quoted by his student Ouspensky, "In Search of the Miraculous," 1949, p. 47.



A major exercise taught by Gurdjieff is called "self-remembering." This exercise has been alleged to derive from the sufi practice of "remembering" [zikr]. But there is a major difference between Gurdjieff's method of self-development via "self-remembering" that dismisses the value of prayer and the Islamic sufi practice of self-effacement via the practice of "God-remembering" [zikru 'llâh]. This points to an important distinction between these two different paths of mysticism: the tradition of Occult mysticism (based on a secret theology rooted in Gnosticism) emphasizes the development of potential divine powers within a human being while at the same time trying to escape the power of the Creator of the material world and to evolve into something "higher." In other words, the doctrine of this kind of mystic is,  "There is no true divinity except Man."22

  • 22If some readers think that this conclusion is too narrow, perhaps because of reading in Occult literature positive references to the word "God" together with an emplasis on the latent Divine powers and knowledge within the human being, readers should keep in mind that the author is asserting that this is the secret Gnostical doctrine of Occultism--and therefore something that most Occultists would avoid teaching or writing about directly (that is, if they have known at all about this secret doctrine).  


A student of J. G. Bennett, A. M. Hodgson, wrote:

"The Demiurge has only an indirect connection to the Source, since it is concerned with long term evolution, not with the state of 'jivanmukti' or 'liberation within one lifetime.'.... In fact, spirituality is of two distinct kinds which we call 'Liberational' and "Demiurgic'. Teachings which point this out do exist on the planet. They are placed there by conscious sources but generally they are restricted and suppressed by the Demiurgic Intelligences because their implications are too upsetting to the status quo."18
18Hodgson, "Crisis In the Search for Truth," 1984, pp. 80-81, 85.  



Cassiopaea Forum

Gurdjieff: The Soul, The First Initiation and Christianity
( http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,6399.0.html )

« Reply #1 
not everybody is born with an individuated soul  
about half the population of the planet are "Organic Portals," animated by what could be compared to an animistic soul that emerges from and returns to a "soul pool."  

Reply #5
It is also possible that there is a question of translation.  Substitute "deep and abiding permanent consiousness" for soul, and see what happens.  

« Reply #7 
Started poking around and found this "defense of Islam"  Methinks the guy protests too much:
Quote http://www.dar-al-masnavi.org/mevlevi-vs-gurdjieffism.html

« Reply #8 
The way I see "soul" is an ability to be "what you are" by either mechanicality or by self discapline. Hence why there are soul "groups" and individual souls. To expand on "what you are", I mean an individual soul can be, and is, what it *chooses* to be, and a group soul is simply what it is, and hasn't really chosen (maybe can't until the mass enough knowledge or self control), sort of like the standard human template from which individual souls break from. Once this break has occurred, the individual soul seems to seek similar souls to join with, which is usually through following the "breadcrumbs" of information/knowledge left by other souls who have made the same basic choice.

I wonder if the fusing of the little I's in the mind is like creating a soul group. or some process of giving them a soul, like a direction? It seems thats how it is. I mean, instead of destroying other I's, you actually attract new ones which are in some way like thought forms, as in the C's. Oh maybe I am getting a bit too... imaginative  

« Reply #23 
the sufies I have studied with say we have a chance to create a soul, to have a 'deep and abiding permanent consciousness that transcends death.'

Comment

if you do a search for:  "deep and abiding permanent consiousness"

the only reference on the internet is to this forum topic at Cassiopaea

of course that means that this definition for soul: 'deep and abiding permanent consciousness that transcends death.' also can only be found in this forum topic.

Is there a better definition?

 

a force that procreates and kills

From: Supramoralism

  • Nature has attained consciousness in man.
  • Nature, the blind force that procreates and kills
  • What will nature – which, in its present, unconscious state, is a force that procreates and kills – become when it achieves consciousness, if not a force restoring what it has destroyed in its blindness?
  • Concerning the two types of relations of rational beings to the irrational force: the present one (exploiting and exhausting nature), or as it should be (regulating and re-creating it).

From: Apocalyptism

As George M. Young says in his excellent book Nikolai F. Fedorov: An Introduction,  -- George Young, op. cit., p. 198.   

modern technology has given us the power to alter life itself, but 'just what we should do with this Godlike power is a question that someone is going to have to answer.  Fedorov's answer may not be the best one that will ever be proposed, but so far it seems the most thorough and deepest attempt at one.
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